raymond frantz
JoinedPosts by raymond frantz
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How is one chosen by grace according to Romans 11:5?
by raymond frantz innew post : how is one chosen by grace according to romans 11:5?.
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Breaking News :Charity Commission takes Wathtower to Tribunal in Britain
by raymond frantz inbreaking news :charity commission takes watchtower to charity tribunal in britain.
two weeks ago we run an article about the abuse case in moston manchester congregation .it would seem that the coverage from the main local newspaper manchester evening news and two national newspapers has alarmed the charity commission the official regulator for charities in england and wales and now for the first time !
they opened an official investigation on both charities ,the local one ,moston congragation and the central one jehovah's witnesses of britain indicating that in their eyes these two are connected and liable for any misconduct .this is the time for a concentrated campaign from all of us to inform the charity commission why the watchtower should not be a called a charity .the article above has a link for the charity commission complaint page .follow it!.
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raymond frantz
Breaking News :Charity Commission takes Watchtower to Charity Tribunal in Britain
Two weeks ago we run an article about the abuse case in Moston Manchester Congregation .It would seem that the coverage from the main local newspaper Manchester Evening News and two national newspapers has alarmed the Charity Commission the official regulator for charities in England and Wales and now FOR THE FIRST TIME ! they opened an official investigation on both charities ,the local one ,Moston Congragation and the central one Jehovah's Witnesses of Britain indicating that in their eyes these two are connected and liable for any misconduct .THIS IS THE TIME FOR A CONCENTRATED CAMPAIGN FROM ALL OF US TO INFORM THE CHARITY COMMISSION WHY THE WATCHTOWER SHOULD NOT BE A CALLED A CHARITY .The article above has a link for the Charity Commission Complaint Page .FOLLOW IT!
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What happens after you get the registered letter?
by paul from cleveland inmy friend's daughter, who was baptized at 14, has decided to leave the witnesses.
she's in her early 20's.
she's stopped going to meeting a while ago and moved in with her father who is disfellowshipped.
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raymond frantz
I spoke to a high up elder recently and told me they have new direction from Bethel on these two matters :
1. The disfellowshiped person no longer needs to sit at the back of the hall ,they can sit wherever they like
2. If you are told that 2 elders want to meet with you is an indication of an upcoming judicial committee .Aviod it at all costs ,just says I don't want to meet under any circumastances .If you do that they will leave you alone ,they won't followed it through .That is a brand new direction ,any one else knows about it?
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LATEST NEWS :Door knocking results in uncovering of huge drug crop
by raymond frantz inif witnessing doesn't work much these days ,you might want to turned yourself to small time police detective like this 77-year-old from australia.... jehovah's witness uncovers huge drug crop while doorknocking.
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raymond frantz
If witnessing doesn't work much these days ,you might want to turned yourself to small time police detective like this 77-year-old from Australia...
Jehovah's Witness uncovers huge drug crop while doorknocking
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Reconciling animals and suffering
by Pacopoolio inwe know that christians generally go through ridiculous mental voodoo to explain why a benevolent god allows human suffering, and none of it makes any sense, or is filled with bunk logic.
that's what happens when you try and retrofit a jewish "god is good and evil" religion into a benevolent religion.. .
one of the biggest "trips" to a jw/christian in continuing this line of thought is asking them why god would create animals simply to suffer and die, then, after they try to blame everything on adam (whose brain god supposedly created, and who put him into the exact situation that had an influence on that brain to cause him to sin).
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Reconciling animals and suffering
by Pacopoolio inwe know that christians generally go through ridiculous mental voodoo to explain why a benevolent god allows human suffering, and none of it makes any sense, or is filled with bunk logic.
that's what happens when you try and retrofit a jewish "god is good and evil" religion into a benevolent religion.. .
one of the biggest "trips" to a jw/christian in continuing this line of thought is asking them why god would create animals simply to suffer and die, then, after they try to blame everything on adam (whose brain god supposedly created, and who put him into the exact situation that had an influence on that brain to cause him to sin).
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raymond frantz
I'm a man of faith .It is easy to look at a particular situation and pronounce it to be cruel or violent. When you look at the whole picture of the natural world, you see violence and destruction to be the exception, not the rule. Overall, the natural world functions in a very consistent and beautiful way with various forms of plants and animals assisting and providing for one another in complex ways.I would suggest this system is a much stronger argument for God's wisdom and design than it is for His cruelty. I'm happy to accept this explanation and expect God to explain to me the rest later .I'm happy to wait on God than some scientist that may provide me (or maybe not) a more satisfactory answer one day.
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Reconciling animals and suffering
by Pacopoolio inwe know that christians generally go through ridiculous mental voodoo to explain why a benevolent god allows human suffering, and none of it makes any sense, or is filled with bunk logic.
that's what happens when you try and retrofit a jewish "god is good and evil" religion into a benevolent religion.. .
one of the biggest "trips" to a jw/christian in continuing this line of thought is asking them why god would create animals simply to suffer and die, then, after they try to blame everything on adam (whose brain god supposedly created, and who put him into the exact situation that had an influence on that brain to cause him to sin).
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raymond frantz
There is also a theological side to it all .I'm pretty sure most of my atheist friends here will strongly disagree but I will quoted nonetheless . There is a direct connection between man falling from Grace and the corruption of the physical creation .
Romans 8:21,22:"the creation itself will also be set free+ from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now."
How much has that contributed to the animal creation is something that can only be revealed in time.
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Reconciling animals and suffering
by Pacopoolio inwe know that christians generally go through ridiculous mental voodoo to explain why a benevolent god allows human suffering, and none of it makes any sense, or is filled with bunk logic.
that's what happens when you try and retrofit a jewish "god is good and evil" religion into a benevolent religion.. .
one of the biggest "trips" to a jw/christian in continuing this line of thought is asking them why god would create animals simply to suffer and die, then, after they try to blame everything on adam (whose brain god supposedly created, and who put him into the exact situation that had an influence on that brain to cause him to sin).
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raymond frantz
3.Predators is a more viable option for a complex eco-system: The alternative to predation is worse. When a zebra is killed by a pride of lions, it may appear to be a horrible end to a beautiful pastoral life for the zebra. The reality of the situation is that predation is normally a merciful end to a troubled animal. In a balanced natural ecosystem, healthy animals are rarely eaten. It is the old, crippled, infirmed, diseased, wounded animals that are usually the victims of predators.
What would happen if there were no predation? Suppose every animal born lived to a ripe old age with no threats of ever being eaten or removed from the population. It is very obvious that in short order there would be so many animals that all food supplies would be exhausted. Low food supplies make animals vulnerable to all kinds of disease and problems.
The other factor that needs to be mentioned in this discussion is that man has caused many of the problems that animals face. Injudicious use of the land has led to restricted habitat for many forms of life. When predators are faced with restricted habitat, they sometimes engage in activities that they would not be a part of were they not under enormous stress.
It is easy to look at a particular situation and pronounce it to be cruel or violent. When you look at the whole picture of the natural world, you see violence and destruction to be the exception, not the rule. Overall, the natural world functions in a very consistent and beautiful way with various forms of plants and animals assisting and providing for one another in complex ways.I would suggest this system is a much stronger argument for God's wisdom and design than it is for His cruelty.
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Reconciling animals and suffering
by Pacopoolio inwe know that christians generally go through ridiculous mental voodoo to explain why a benevolent god allows human suffering, and none of it makes any sense, or is filled with bunk logic.
that's what happens when you try and retrofit a jewish "god is good and evil" religion into a benevolent religion.. .
one of the biggest "trips" to a jw/christian in continuing this line of thought is asking them why god would create animals simply to suffer and die, then, after they try to blame everything on adam (whose brain god supposedly created, and who put him into the exact situation that had an influence on that brain to cause him to sin).
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raymond frantz
Thanks cognisonance ,I read your article and it makes many valid points which I will try to address to the best of my ability .While I'm answering it I'll try to brake it down to small sections so we deal with one thing at a time.
1. Anthropomorphizing animals :Much of the question of cruelty involves the tendency of humans to anthropomorphize animals. From early childhood, we are shown animals acting like humans. In cartoons and comic strips, animals talk, kiss, read, dance, play golf, and sing as humans do. Films like Lion King have carried the tradition of Disney on with the same effect.
The inability to distinguish between fantasy and the real world has become a problem in many ways in our culture, but it is especially serious when it results in human suffering and need. Animals are not humans and the portrayals that give them the total range of human abilities and feelings is at least misguided.
As I said earlier the more complex the biological entity the more complex it's nervous system and therefore it's ability to feel pain .
2.Animals do not feel pain as we do. Pain is a psychological experience separate from behavioral reactions to injurious stimuli. Pain involves both perception and an emotional response. When you hit your thumb with a hammer, there is an immediate perception that you have been injured. The emotional aspect that follows involves suffering, but is not necessarily a part of the perception. You can have a great deal of pain that results from the death of someone you love and not have any perceptual response at all.
The term nociception refers to the detection of an injury by the nervous system (which may or may not lead to pain). A starfish has a primitive nervous system that interconnects sensory receptors that detect injurious stimuli with muscle cells that cause movements enabling the starfish to move away from nociceptive stimuli. Starfish have no brain so there is no pain.
The human central nervous system has a large cerebral hemisphere and a brain stem connected to a spinal cord. Nociceptive stimuli can cause an immediate protective reaction called a reflex, but pain has not been felt by the person. The nociceptive activity is transmitted to the brain stem where additional protective reactions take place (avoidance responses, verbalizations). The nociceptive activity is transmitted from the brain stem to various parts of the cerebral hemispheres where it activates conscious awareness of the nociceptive stimulus and generates the emotional unpleasantness of pain.
In a fish, you have a simpler version of the spinal cord and brain stem, but the neural functions are similar to that of humans. The cerebral hemispheres of the fish lack the regions necessary for conscious awareness and for generation of pain experience. Awareness of pain is associated with the brain stem and spinally generated behavioral reactions.
All mammals have enlarged cerebral hemispheres that are mainly an outer layer of neocortex. In humans, this neocortex is massively developed and this is the key to our ability to experience pain. If the cerebral hemispheres of a human are destroyed, a comatose vegetative state results. If the cerebral hemispheres of a fish are destroyed, the fish's behavior is normal in most ways. The unpleasant part of pain in humans is generated by specific regions of the frontal lobes of the cerebral hemispheres. Other mammals have radically different sized frontal lobes. The brains of sheep and deer, for example, have a tiny fraction of the frontal lobe mass that humans have. Their perception of pain cannot possibly be anything like ours. Note: The above data is from an article by Dr. James D. Rose, Department of Zoology and Physiology at the University of Wyoming, Laramie, titled "Do Fish Feel Pain?," In Fisherman, December, 1999.
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Reconciling animals and suffering
by Pacopoolio inwe know that christians generally go through ridiculous mental voodoo to explain why a benevolent god allows human suffering, and none of it makes any sense, or is filled with bunk logic.
that's what happens when you try and retrofit a jewish "god is good and evil" religion into a benevolent religion.. .
one of the biggest "trips" to a jw/christian in continuing this line of thought is asking them why god would create animals simply to suffer and die, then, after they try to blame everything on adam (whose brain god supposedly created, and who put him into the exact situation that had an influence on that brain to cause him to sin).
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raymond frantz
this sound more like a Gnostic approach to the nature of God .This approach has been there since the beginning of the Christian congragation.The sense of rightousness is inherent to you because you have been given a counscience and an internal moral code by a Source .Objective moral values have no meaning ,or your sense of injustice without a Moral Law giver.
